CLEVELAND, Ohio — After a two-week vacation, the Terry’s Talkin’ podcast is back, with cleveland.com columnist Terry Pluto and host David Campbell. Today we look at the Guardians as they move into the dog days of the season, and spend a minute appreciating the greatness of closer Emmanuel Clase.
We also talk about the Browns after the first preseason game, and the area where Deshaun Watson most needs to up his game for Cleveland to contend in 2024. And we spend a few minutes discussing LeBron James’ third Olympic gold medal, and what it means as he turns 40 this upcoming December.
Plus, bonus Flying Wallendas stories.
Highlights:
- Terry’s next library appearance is Thursday, Aug. 29 at the Niles McKinley Library, 40 N. Main Street, Niles, Ohio, at 6 p.m.
- Can the Guardians win the AL Central? A listener’s theory on what it might take from a starting pitching perspective
- MLB writers say the Guardians are their No. 7 pick to win the World Series. What’s up with that?
- The greatness of Emmanuel Clase and the Flying Wallendas;
- Why Terry is encouraged by Dorian Thompson-Robinson after watching Saturday’s preseason game;
- Dan Orlovsky of ESPN ranked the top 10 NFL quarterbacks in seven areas: Which are most important for Deshaun Watson to rank in if the Browns are going to win big?
- Why NFL kickers are better than ever;
- Appreciating LeBron James and his third gold medal in the Olympics, at age 39;
- And more listener stories about foul balls.
Here’s the podcast for this week. If the player above doesn’t work, you can listen to this week’s podcast here:
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You can find previous podcasts below. The transcript below was generated by a computer, and so it contains many spelling and grammar errors.
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David Campbell (03:32.718)
Hey, it’s time for the Terry’s Talking podcast. I’m David Campbell, your host, and I am joined by my colleague, Mr. Terry Pluto, award -winning columnist from the Plane Dealer in Cleveland .com. Terry, we had a couple of weeks off. The good news is that you were able to have a nice vacation up in Michigan, and the bad news is that our listeners are now stuck with us until well into the wintertime. How was your vacation?
Terry (03:52.478)
I’m sure we are. My vacation was great and it was nice to be in, on Lake Superior. And I do not want to hear anything about how can you go to Michigan? And people start quoting Woody Hayes to me. And this is a little bit of my faith calm for the weekend. Do you know that it’s much closer for Columbus to go to Ann Arbor than to go from Ann Arbor to Marquette, Michigan, where I was. It’s not even.
David Campbell (04:07.042)
You
David Campbell (04:21.793)
No kidding.
Terry (04:22.302)
anywhere near. Marquette, Michigan from here is 650 miles. Most of it straight north. So anyway, they are not real, you know, basically up there, they like the Packers. They’re a little bit of Lions. They like the Tigers and they love the Red Wings and there’s not much in the way of college talk at all.
David Campbell (04:51.042)
Well, it’s beautiful country up there and beautiful time here. You always take some amazing pictures and, I want to mention to her, you’re going to be back on the road soon. You have a library appearance coming up on Thursday, August 29th, right? It’s six o ‘clock.
Terry (04:52.849)
Yep.
Terry (05:04.176)
Yes. Yeah. The McKinley library and Niles seems like I’ve been there every year for a long time. Now it’s a cool place. And, so the McKinley library Niles at six o ‘clock and we’re going to have a couple more in September coming up too. late September. So I’m glad about that to get some invitations and those are always fun. And besides, if you don’t like it, get your money back.
David Campbell (05:25.506)
That’s right. The price of admission, All right. Hey, that’s right. Hey, we got a lot to get to today. The Guardians, we’ll start with them. The Browns are in camp. There was some Mike Hall, Jr. news today that we need to touch on real quick, which is not good. And I know you want to talk a little bit about LeBron today and his performance in the Olympics, Jerry, but let’s start with the Guardians.
Terry (05:28.152)
Yes, they’ll even double your price of admission, which you paid to get there.
Terry (05:46.897)
Mm -hmm.
David Campbell (05:51.31)
It’s been like a tumultuous couple of weeks, but you look at the standings, the Guardians are 70 and 49 as we tape this on Tuesday afternoon. That’s 588. They’re still tied for the best record in baseball. I think with the Dodgers and the Orioles, who I think have the same exact record. And the Guardians, after winning those two games to end the series up in Minnesota, they’re three and a half games up on the Twins after the Guardians beat the Cubs last night.
I always ask you Terry if you’re worried about the pitching and worried about the Guardians but how do you feel about this team coming back from your trip and what you’ve seen the last few days and it’s funny I run into fans and they’re like yeah the Guardians are going to win the division and then I run into the other half of fans and they’re like it’s going to fall apart so where do you stand on that?
Terry (06:34.136)
They’re in a different phase of streaks, which they really weren’t earlier. Remember they won five, lost seven, now heading into Tuesday night they’ve won three. And they were before they were just kind of knocking out three out of four, two out of three winning series as they went along. And staying away certainly they had not lost I believe more than three in a row until that seven game losing streak, which was just like a week ago.
That’s where I really began to wonder how they would respond and they bounced back. They really did bounce back again. So I’m always worried about them. Not so much making the playoffs now, because I think they got a good shot at the wild card too, if they were to fall flat. But just the pitching is so iffy, David. mean, they could talk all about...
They’re shopping baseball rummage sales. Now other teams are doing it too. This is not just to knock them, but you know, Matthew Boyd, Alex Cobb, who the heck was the guy they brought up here for one start? can’t even remember his name. You he came from the Giants somewhere. They claimed him on waivers. He started one game and he’s gone. You know, just all these different people and just looking for someone to get through five innings. So
That’s going to be a concern. The bullpen still as of what now this is a stat I had on Sunday. There were 11 guys who had pitched in 53 games or more and five are with the guardians. That’s that’s a lot. And so we’ll have to see if you see now the bullpen is starting to give up a few. Klaus is just this is Mariana Rivera at his best. Not just Mary.
David Campbell (08:14.591)
man.
David Campbell (08:28.172)
It’s amazing, isn’t it?
Terry (08:29.438)
This, mean, this is just incredible. And you watch him and I liked how. Vote was talking about, I guess he quoted Brad Asimov or somebody about, anybody could walk out a car table, but who wants to walk on a car table? That’s 10 ‚000 feet off the ground point being, it’s just like, I actually knew one of the Walendas. he was a friend of Bill Glass. Yes. He was a friend of Bill Glass who.
David Campbell (08:54.616)
Did you really?
So wait, we should say this is of the famous flying Willenda brothers or people who don’t know what we’re talking about, the trapeze artists, right? Yeah.
Terry (09:01.25)
one does. Yeah, this was Timo. No one. Right. Yes. The whole family. Bill Glass was a friend of mine, played for the Browns in the 60s, and then went into prison ministry. And I did some prison ministry for him. And he was kind of an early mentor for me with that. And when he would go into some of the penitentiaries, he has some people that came in, like, kind of like acts for either former athletes to talk or, or guys like one of the LaWendis.
And they actually was set up a little tight rope, you know, across the prison yard, like 12 feet up or whatever. He also had this thing that he would do. He would put it on the, on the ground and just spread it out, maybe, eight inches above the ground and, and make it, you know, and it goes say five feet across. And he would say, who wants to walk the line? So all these guys, prisoners, they’d volunteer, know, cause someone fall off and some wouldn’t.
And now he goes, well, who wants to go up there 15 feet off the ground? Of course, nobody did. And his point was that was like a lot of guys see, I’ll take a shot at that. Like the car table on the floor, but who wants when the car tables up in the air, when he could fall, you’re going to fall badly. And that was you fall in the seventh inning. It’s like, well, it’s not great, but also what you fall on the ninth. You got to walk into the locker room and face all those guys. And that is where.
Kasei is just unflappable it seems on the mound and he doesn’t seem to Let one bad outing or whatever effect even last year when he had 12 blown saves He still saved 40 some and you never I never saw a sense of panic with him I saw him sometimes struggling But he wasn’t one of these guys went out there and walked the first two hitters. boy. Look at this
David Campbell (10:48.568)
Well, this doesn’t happen very often, Terry, and you and I have both covered enough games to know when you’re watching something special and amazing, like you need to acknowledge it. And I think we’re seeing like a LeBron type performance from Emmanuel Classe this season. there’s no, look that game Sunday up in Minnesota was, was, they were talking about this on the broadcast, Tom Hamilton, this was more than one game in the standings. Like it was an important game.
Terry (10:53.928)
Hmm.
Terry (10:58.524)
Over.
Yes.
Terry (11:13.17)
Sure.
David Campbell (11:14.764)
because it was against the twins. It’s like, are you going to lose three out of four? Are you going to split up there? Class eight comes in on the ninth and, and, loads the bases. And then he gets a strikeout. think he struck out Castro and then he got a double play to get out of it. And the guardians go home with a split and there’s, and their lead in the division, the way it was when they came to town. Like that is hard to do. Like he doesn’t get into that kind of trouble often, but he got out of it and they got the win and.
Terry (11:23.901)
Yeah.
Terry (11:29.79)
Mm -hmm.
David Campbell (11:43.34)
Man, I can’t guarantee much about the Guardians, but I will guarantee that he is not pitching tonight against the Cubs. Yeah, after three in a row, like we know that, so.
Terry (11:47.888)
No, he better not. In fact, that would be, I’m sure that would be Antonetti’s on the phone. goes, I don’t think you’re pitching him tonight, but he’s not pitching tonight. Yeah, he’s not even, yes, my father, one of his lines was, don’t even think about it. know, so that.
David Campbell (11:56.684)
Yeah, just the old healthy scratch would be tonight, right?
David Campbell (12:04.558)
Yeah, but you know Terry, you’re right. 56 games, 0 .65 earned run average. He’s given up four earned runs all year, the entire year with 49 strikeouts and seven walks. I mean, it’s just an incredible, incredible season this guy’s having.
Terry (12:14.088)
Yeah.
Terry (12:19.57)
Yeah.
Terry (12:23.77)
And had he blown that game, then, cause remember they’d lost seven in a row and then they finally won a game. And had he blown that one, then you would go, geez. Now you can’t even count on this guy.
David Campbell (12:38.318)
So Terry, are the Guardians the Walendas walking a few inches off the ground or are the Guardians walking 15 feet off the ground? You sound like you think they’re walking just right above the ground because they still make the wild card probably, right?
Terry (12:51.103)
Mm -hmm, I think they do because they...
know, ability to stay positive with all this as a rookie manager, and I’m sure churning up inside, it has been impressive. And they have responded to him.
their defense has gotten better for a while there that I thought their defense was sloppy some during that losing streak that was bothering me because that there’s kind of no excuse for that. So, and you look at Kwan’s back hitting again, that’s a big deal having Kwan hitting at the top of the lineup, you know, earlier, much earlier in the season, I mentioned that I thought Kwan could turn into a Michael Brantley type hitter. And with the power of 15 to 20 homers,
I didn’t necessarily think it was going to be this year and hit around 300. Well, that’s what he is turning into. Cause when I saw the way he started to turn on those inside pitches, that was what Brantley did. That’s when Brantley became a power hitter. When he first came up, you could look it up. He didn’t hit that many homers and things. He was a sort of a slap hitter to the opposite field and that stuff. Then he began to show a little power to the gaps. And then when he would pick his pitches and the inside,
the inside part of the plate, they’d hammer them and like Juan, had a very, they always call it a very quiet swing. Very basic, very quiet, not a lot of stuff going on there to get out of sync. So he’s back hitting again. They’re searching for a number two hitter again. Do notice that? Because Angel Martinez even got sent to the minors. I don’t know what’s with Lane Thomas.
David Campbell (14:40.302)
And yeah, they got to get him going. would be a big help. Yep.
Terry (14:42.544)
No, a horrible start though. mean, really just, cause it got. Yeah. I mean, you guys been a pretty good player. It’s really a surprise. And you know, you could tell they’re trying to let him play his way out of it, but my goodness, I’m sure they’re, sitting there going, what happened to this guy? And they couldn’t, they’re going to need him. You know, that. Meanwhile.
David Campbell (14:47.04)
lot of strikeouts and a lot of bad swings.
Terry (15:13.074)
There’s big Christmas.
David Campbell (15:17.91)
right?
Terry (15:18.46)
Did you see that catch he made? That diving catch.
David Campbell (15:22.478)
For a guy who’s what, 6 ‘3, 250, to be moving like that and making those kind of plays,
Terry (15:25.043)
Yeah.
He’s made at least three of those I can think of.
David Campbell (15:30.732)
Yeah. I mean, I look around, I look around the American league. There’s a lot of right fielders who are, who are smaller than him, who wouldn’t even try to make that catch because they don’t want to, you know, I’m here to hit. I’m not here to field and here’s this guy. Yeah. It’s really something.
Terry (15:38.907)
No.
Terry (15:42.46)
Yeah, I’ll just play it on a bounce or play it off the wall. And I haven’t seen him dive where he didn’t get at least a glove on the ball. because that’s the only thing if you’re, going for that ball down the corner, if you can’t catch it, you at least got to almost like knock it down or something because otherwise it gets past you and everybody’s running around the bases for a long time. But he has done that at least three times. His arm is very strong.
And yeah, I was looking, he’s not, only striking out about every four at bats, which is really good for a young power hitter. And he’s hitting a homer every 10 at bats.
David Campbell (16:20.238)
Well, all right. Well, I wanted to, I’m always interested in the national perception of the guardians, Terry. And I wanted to get your thoughts on this because I know we’ve kind of been tracking the AL Central and the fact that we, you know, it’s probably the best division in baseball right now, but mlb .com they had two of their writers, Will Leach, who used to be with Deadspin and Mike Petrello. did a draft of teams they think will win the world series. And here’s who they picked. All right. The number one pick was the Dodgers.
Terry (16:30.44)
Mm -hmm.
Terry (16:47.876)
That was a tough one.
David Campbell (16:49.004)
Yeah, number two, the Phillies. Number three, the Orioles. Number four, the Yankees. Number five, the Astros. Number six, the Twins. And number seven, the Guardians. And Will Leach said, yeah, all right. Well, Will Leach said, I’m sure Guardians fans will be annoyed to see their team this low. They do have the best record in the American league after all. And I would have taken them ahead of the Twins here because it wasn’t his pick, the pick before. But he says, I understand the skepticism. The rotation’s been passable.
Terry (16:59.184)
jeez. The Guardian’s gotta be fifth on that West. Yeah.
David Campbell (17:18.862)
And while they’re hitting more homers this year, they’re still not that powerful of a team. As we’ve learned over and over, the best way to win in the postseason isn’t to bunt guys over, it’s to hit the ball out of the park. The guardians will have the same, I know, the guardians will have the same small margin for error that they’ve always had in October, maybe even less of one considering their starting pitching. He says the vibes so far in 2024 have been immaculate. So maybe this is their year, who knows? this is.
Terry (17:29.98)
They don’t bond them over either!
David Campbell (17:47.63)
The guardians are one of the top home run hitting teams in baseball, think this year. And I think since the all star break, they might even have hit the most, they’re at least top three. I don’t have that number in front of me, but I don’t know. Like big Christmas hits home runs that go 420, 430 feet. But a lot of the other guys, like you were mentioning Quan, when he yanks a ball to right, goes Jose, a lot of their home runs, some of them go five rows up and like, they’re not.
Terry (17:54.878)
Mm -hmm.
Terry (18:04.923)
Mm -hmm.
Jose.
Terry (18:13.766)
Yeah.
David Campbell (18:14.574)
Prodigy just so maybe that’s why this impression is out there, but these guys are hitting home runs this year
Terry (18:19.102)
Well, it’s a, as you said, it’s a national perspective, which means what they’re not watching the team that closely. And it’s also the guardians are not a star studded roster. know, Jose Ramirez is, know, the top five players or top 10 in baseball. He I’ve called him for years, the secret superstar. And that’s what he is. And they, you know, he doesn’t care if he gets national recognition and.
They don’t care if they give it to them. it’s kind of that situation. you know, as we’re looking at some stuff here, I just really, and the Astros, I mean, I know they got some talent and everything, but really what are the twins and Astros done to deserve to be ranked over Cleveland? You know, all three of those teams are flawed.
David Campbell (19:09.816)
They are. And I don’t know if it’s just that the guardians don’t have any starting pitchers who are nationally known or what the deal is. Anyway, that surprised me and Hey, you know, there’s only one way to get recognition nationally and that’s to win when everybody’s watching in October. So.
Terry (19:14.514)
Mm -hmm.
Terry (19:22.527)
Yeah, and that’s, you are going to see some of that stuff that where people are dismissing Cleveland because they dismiss Cleveland. Now, the one thing that he totally ignores that can really help you in the postseason is a dominant bullpen. And 2016, when they went to the World Series, that starting rotation was completely built, beat up. And so when you looked at that, what they did is they used their three relievers.
to be able to go and carry. All right, here we go. -star breaks, home runs is the all -star break in the American League, the Guardians rank fifth, 29, yep, and ninth overall. if you do, there’s a stat that I like. Let’s see, runs scored.
David Campbell (20:09.921)
Okay.
Terry (20:22.822)
Well, not as high as I thought in the American leader knife. But they do have some power.
David Campbell (20:28.226)
Yeah, might be the window might be it might be higher since you know over the last three three weeks or something. But anyway, the reputation.
Terry (20:33.438)
Yeah. But remember, this is a team that was always, if you walked the baseball, 30 teams, they’re always like 28th to 30th. And if you looked in the American league in home runs with 15 teams, they’re always like 14 or 15. So this has been a big change for them.
David Campbell (20:49.326)
It’s kind of like voting for MVP and stuff. takes a year for your reputation to catch up with what you actually are. So, maybe people will start looking at the stats. Anyway, I just thought that was interesting. Hey Terry, this is an interesting email from, from Brian Kirkendall, a long time listener, and it might give some perspective to fans who might be worried. So I just wanted to read this real quick and then get your thoughts on it. Brian says, Dave and Terry, I was thinking about the Gardos and what is the key to the last 50 games of this most improbable season?
Terry (20:53.232)
Mm -hmm.
Terry (21:09.758)
Okay.
David Campbell (21:16.782)
And I do want to point out Terry, Brian wrote this while we were off. his numbers, he’s got 50 games left and he still has Curry on the team, but you’ll hear. He says, per my advanced analytics calculation while in the shower this morning, hitting will provide at least four runs in at least 25 of the 50 games, providing a chance to win. If you assume the top three pitchers hold in our healthy, that leaves roughly 16 games for the fourth and fifth pitchers plus a few spots starts. let’s say 20 games.
Terry (21:28.101)
There you go. Tell the truth.
David Campbell (21:45.102)
So to me, the key to the remainder of the season is getting a hundred innings out of the starting pitching combination of Boyd, Cobb, Curry, McKenzie and Allen. Of course, Curry is now pitching for the Marlins. So there’s four guys left. But he says, if that group can somehow get five innings a game over 16 scheduled games, plus an occasional spot start, totaling 20 games, the guardians win the division. The bullpen will still have arms for the playoffs. That last phrase, the bullpen will still have arms is key. I like the approach the front office took.
of a couple of wild cards at the deadline to pair with a few guys sent the AAA to get fixed. They have five options to get a handful of starts. So there you go. So it’s down to four now it’s Boyd Cobb, Mackenzie and Alan are down in the minors, but what do you think of that? That seems manageable when you put it like that, when you break it down like that, they don’t need eight innings from everybody. If they can just get this out of some guys, they’re going to be fine. I don’t know.
Terry (22:41.96)
Well, it’s predicated on also Ben Lively continuing to pitch well. And he did not look good the other night. And I’m going to check right now his last couple of starts because I think they’ve been rocky. So.
David Campbell (22:58.414)
So last night was three and two thirds against the Cubs. Five runs, three earned, four walks, one strike out he threw 79 pitches.
Terry (23:01.256)
Hmm.
Terry (23:06.33)
Yeah. And he, thought the umpire didn’t help him a lot, but he, wasn’t his usual, his usual self. if you look at that now, the, okay. So he three, two thirds innings, three runs, the previous start five innings against Arizona, four runs, which wasn’t real good for walks. He’s walked four in each of the last two games. now early in August, first thing is Baltimore. He was terrific. So actually.
David Campbell (23:08.13)
No decision.
Terry (23:35.454)
I have to amend everything I just said. The last several starts, it’s just he’s had two bad starts. So now does that mean he is starting to go back to Ben Lively who has the ERA of 5 .14 in his major league career before coming here and at ERA over four and two years in Korea or did he just have a couple of bad starts?
But that’s a key thing. mean, who knew he was saying, you know, Ben Lively is really key to this, keeping this rotation up, but he is, Gavin Williams is starting to look sharp. You know, by me, I was glad whatever it was with his shoulder or whatever, apparently went away through well. but I don’t know. I mean, we’ll see what Matthew boy does Tuesday night, Cobb. We’ll see what he does. Mackenzie is starting to pitch better in the minors. He was bad down there for awhile.
You know, Logan Allen, it’s going to be.
It’s going to be rough. know, all year they have found a way to win these games and with surprising offense and an elite bullpen. And that’s probably what’s going to have to continue for this to, for them to remain among the teams in baseball. It’s just hard to even say that. No knock, but I mean, we’re now in the middle of August and they are, they still have the, the best record, right? Thumb in the Orioles or something. Jeez.
David Campbell (25:04.503)
-hmm, affiliates.
Terry (25:07.142)
I this is not April 15th or even June 12th. It’s what August 12th or whatever it is.
David Campbell (25:14.616)
Yep. All right. So yeah, as you mentioned, Terry Matthew Boyd, who has looked good in his minor league starts pitches tonight against the Cubs and then tomorrow night it is Alex Cobb. And I think one thing that is really going to help is the guardians are off Thursday and then they have another off day on Monday. So as they head down the home stretch, they’ll have two off days sandwiched around a series against the Brewers. They’re playing the Brewers this weekend. So that’ll be good. Help recharge the bullpen and set them up for the rest of August.
Terry (25:31.55)
Mm -hmm.
Terry (25:41.49)
But they don’t like I’m just looking there like sent the.
Sent these guys what, they’re home for three days and they sent them to Milwaukee for three and then to New York for three, huh?
David Campbell (25:53.196)
Yeah, yeah, with an off day in between. So there you go. Yeah, and I think there were four teams on Sunday who didn’t play. Wasn’t that weird? Anyway, the baseball schedule is it’s a huge puzzle and sometimes there’s quirks in the schedule. So all right, Terry, go ahead. Yeah.
Terry (25:54.098)
Okay.
Okay, all right, they don’t like them.
Terry (26:11.398)
All right, I’m going to bring something up because I’m dealing with this a little bit in my newsletter, but a guy asked me, when do you think Travis Benzana will come to the big leagues? And so I just decided to look at how he’s hitting at Class A Lake County and also the other four guys, because in other words, four guys that they were looking at for that top spot. Well,
Travis is five for 32, so he’s at 156, who’s got a homer. Then the guy I wanted, Charlie Condon, is six for 21. He was picked by Colorado. He’s got a home run, so that’s not too bad, but he struck out nine times in 21 at bats. Joe Caglione, who was a power hitter from Florida, he went to Kansas City, and he is three for 20.
with seven strikeouts, they’re all small sample sizes. But I think you could see now the only guy that’s hitting anything at all is that JJ Weatherholt, he’s eight for 30 with a home run 267. So none of these guys have gone straight from the college campus and began just raking the ball. And they all interestingly are playing not just A -ball, but the high A. So that must be the new baseball industry thing. If you take a guy high in the draft out of the college,
You don’t send them to rookie ball. You don’t send them to even the low A. Yeah, you send them to high A. So there you go. So basically none of these guys really hitting.
David Campbell (27:42.795)
Low A.
David Campbell (27:50.062)
All right, well, and speaking of call -ups, I am still holding on that the Guardians might take a look at Austin Peterson from the Rubber Ducks. He’s 12 and three now and 24 years old out of Yukon. And I think they took him in the ninth round a couple of years ago. So there’s a guy who’s not 21, 22. It seems like the 24 is a good age and I don’t know, they might take a look at him. don’t know.
Terry (27:55.964)
Mm -hmm.
Terry (28:03.655)
Yeah.
I’m surprised they haven’t moved. Yeah. I’m surprised they didn’t move them up to triple A, really.
David Campbell (28:13.656)
They might, they might. Yeah.
Terry (28:14.704)
It should have. I mean, why not? What’s so great about the rotation of Columbus?
David Campbell (28:19.662)
Yeah. Well, I the guardians draft like 16 pitchers every year and this is like, this is what it is. get, they try to get guys ready for when they need them and.
Terry (28:23.1)
Yeah.
Terry (28:27.75)
And you know, they say he doesn’t throw that hard or whatever, but.
Terry (28:33.822)
struck out 123 and 127 innings. So he’s striking out one inning. 14, I mean, this ratio of 14 walks to 123 strikeouts is tremendous. Hitters are batting 194 against them. and double A is, yeah, yeah. Now that, that is a combination of his stats between Lake County and Akron.
David Campbell (28:50.979)
Might seem like a double header or something, right? They might bring them up as a.
David Campbell (29:00.557)
Right.
Terry (29:00.738)
And actually at Akron, you know, and the numbers are almost identical. So it hasn’t faced him at all to move up one level. I’m, I’m all for looking at different people because you look at the Columbus team and I just don’t see a lot of, you’re just hoping that. Mackenzie could put himself together. I thought Alan was, I was a little surprised. sent him back down, but.
They seem to be want him to do something. I’m not sure what it is exactly. I mean, it sounds weird, but it’s like they’re bouncing him up and down a lot.
Terry (29:41.576)
There you go.
David Campbell (29:42.604)
All right. Okay. Let’s take a break here, Terry. And when we come back, I want to ask you about your column yesterday on Monday, where you wrote your kind of, you’re still a big fan of DTR, Dorian Thompson Robinson, after going to the game on Saturday against the Packers. So we’ll get into that and we’ll talk some LeBron and get to more of your letters when we return on Terry’s talkin.
David Campbell (32:14.06)
We are back on Terry’s talking. Terry, toward the end of last segment, you were mentioning your newsletter. I did want to give a quick plug to that real quick. If you subscribe to cleveland .com or if you want to subscribe through Terry’s newsletter, you can go to cleveland .com slash Pluto. You’ll find all of Terry’s stuff there. Go to the blue bar at the top of the page and you can sign up to get Terry’s weekly newsletter. It comes out every Wednesday at noon and there’s lots of great stuff behind the scenes thoughts of Terry while he’s out covering things. be great research. You just mentioned some of it you just did Terry and check that out.
It’s definitely worth your time. And again, cleveland .com slash Pluto. All right. Hey, I wanted to mention real quick before we get into the Browns, some news was breaking right before we started to tape this. Mike Hall Jr. rookie defensive lineman out of Ohio state is from streetsboro was arrested and booked an Avon this morning after a domestic disturbance call Monday night. Just wanted to let listeners know about that in case they hadn’t heard.
The Browns have released a statement saying they know about it and they are tracking the situation. So I guess we will see, but not great news for Mike Hall and the Browns.
Terry (33:16.782)
No, it isn’t. I’m always like guarded. Let’s see what this plays out. I’m sure that’s not exactly what Andrew Berry wanted to see on his cell phone whenever that popped in there.
David Campbell (33:21.196)
Yep, All right, so yeah.
David Campbell (33:29.452)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So we will find out more soon. I’m sure. So, all right, Terry, you were at the game Saturday against the Packers and you wrote a column yesterday about kind of why Doreen Thompson Robinson looks different to you this year and how he’s approached in the game differently. Why don’t you talk about that a little bit and what you saw.
Terry (33:47.71)
Well, a couple of things. I rolled a column, say, you know, my back on the DTR train is sort of them. I liked him last year and they said, well, he’s playing like he did in training camp last year. think this was better. I mean, he was 14 of 18 passing. he was not out there with a lot of talent. They couldn’t run the ball at all. By the way, I think that’s a big red flag. know,
on the lineman or herd or whatever, but I just was really disturbed by that. We’ll go there. But David, what did you make? you, you, I, I trust you a lot more on lineman stuff than me.
David Campbell (34:26.52)
So, you know, I was watching the offense and what it looked like and everything, but I was trying to focus. I was interested in the offensive line too, for just the reason you talk about Terry. And I thought it was interesting. Luke Whippler went down with that injury and man, he’s talk about a guy who’s had some bad luck. and you saw the Browns turn around and make a trade right away to get Nick Harris back. And Nick was here for several years after the Browns drafted him. And it was a pretty serviceable backup, had a really good game.
Terry (34:41.438)
Mm -hmm.
David Campbell (34:55.145)
in Green Bay, I remember when he had to fill in two seasons ago. I also was watching Zach Zinter, the rookie from Michigan, the rookie lineman. had a great career at Michigan and I didn’t think he had a great game. And I don’t know if the two were related, if they had any thoughts of Zach Zinter maybe being the backup center and they didn’t like what they saw or if it was just like, let’s get a veteran in here who’s been through the battles in the NFL. it’s, you know, your first preseason game in the NFL,
Terry (34:58.515)
Mm -hmm.
David Campbell (35:23.308)
I didn’t think Zach Sinter played great, it’s early. He’s got a lot of time to grow. Yeah.
Terry (35:26.618)
I didn’t think anybody played great on the line. mean, I, I mean, I’m sure somebody did that. I’m just saying collectively. It was a big downer and I’m going to get this. We’re talking, I’m going to get the stats on exactly how bad the running game was, but that was a, that bothered me and go ahead.
David Campbell (35:33.432)
Yeah.
David Campbell (35:45.826)
Well, the thing that makes the ground game go, Terry, I really think is that interior three of postage and the two guards, but Tonio and Wyatt Teller and those guys aren’t out there. And so that’s, that’s the ground moving the, the mountain moving men that you have that make the thing work. So I was trying to look at who was making blocks, who wasn’t, who might’ve been missing assignments and things like that. So I think some of that will get cleaned up, but you’re, did you, did you not like the kinds of runs or just the fact that they weren’t resulting.
Terry (35:50.578)
Mm -hmm.
Terry (36:13.758)
It just seemed they went nowhere. That’s all I’m saying. I mean, I’m going to look at this here. I’ll have it up in one moment. OK, so when you look at rushing John Kelly, by the way, I they let him go. This guy like it’s been there, I think since Ernie Green was in the Browns backfield or something, but four carries 15 yards. Pierre Strong six carries 15 yards.
David Campbell (36:27.202)
Yeah.
Terry (36:41.758)
that Aiden Robbins five carries six yards. Ford two carries four yards. So basically if you take out Tyler Huntley running for 13 yards and you take out the the the quarterbacks had 15 yards rushing everybody else had 41 41 yards and like the average 2 .4 per carry. It was bad. Your longest run was nine yards.
And they did try to run it some, it didn’t go anywhere.
David Campbell (37:16.664)
That’s definitely something to watch. Here’s we go online. It’s, it sounds like Deshaun Watson is going to play in the last preseason game against Seattle. So that might be where we really watched the run game that night here and see what it looks like. So.
Terry (37:18.163)
Yeah.
Terry (37:21.778)
Mm -hmm.
I he played 20 snaps last year in the last game. But you look at the stats, Thompson was 14 of 18, 134 yards, completed passes to seven receivers. That’s what I was looking at. And so he’s out there where they were throwing the ball at Jermari Thrash. I know the Browns were very excited, by the way, when they saw Thrash. They really liked that. And Michael was the second.
John Kelly, think, a pass from him. He moved the ball around to a lot of different players. Did Cedric Tillman get hurt in this game or something?
David Campbell (38:04.224)
I don’t think so. Yeah.
Terry (38:05.488)
He just caught one pass for three yards. I didn’t see, I like the third quarter I’m going that was, guess he’s in and out now or whatever. just, you know, he was no presence. So, Jordan, you know, because he moved the ball around a lot and he was throwing a lot out of the pocket. And so I was impressed by that because not much else was happening other than him.
David Campbell (38:29.804)
Yeah. so Terry, Mary Kay, our colleague has been writing about Amari Cooper and the Brandon IU deal that’s been swirling out there for what seems like six months now. Mary Kay was noticing that Amari Cooper was really engaged. was, you know, participating on the sideline, talking with guys, trying to keep them pumped up. Do you think there’s going be any fallout to this? If the deal doesn’t happen with the Brown, do you think this is going to be lingering or not with Amari Cooper?
Terry (38:36.146)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Terry (38:45.885)
Sure.
Terry (38:57.062)
I think they talked to him and they got him. I was told they got him in a good place that he is. I wrote Sunday or Saturday for the Sunday paper and that, that I was told the deal’s nowhere now. mean, it’s not, it keeps sure. And Mary Kay made a good point. You could always activate it again, but I just wonder how much of this, a lot of the leaking, which is done by San Francisco trying to create a market.
for Ayuk or a market that Ayuk doesn’t like and then they could sign him for what they want to sign him for as opposed to Ayuk, know, yes. Now, I’ll leave first on this then I want you to talk about the trade. Let’s just say the trade that was reported, Cooper, a second and a fifth for Ayuk. I didn’t like that because I called it
David Campbell (39:36.938)
Use it as leverage,
Terry (39:56.008)
sort of a minor league Deshaun Watson deal. You’re trading a second and a fifth, not only his first, but then you got to turn around and you’re trading a guy who I’m not sure.
Maybe overall, Ayuk is going to be better. He’s younger than that. But if he had to win tomorrow’s game, would you rather have Ayuk or Cooper? I’m asking you. Yeah.
David Campbell (40:18.584)
Cooper, Cooper, Cooper, yeah. But the Browns have to think about, again, they’re in the middle of this five -year window with the Sean Watson. They have to think not just about this year, but about the year after and the year after. And yeah.
Terry (40:27.998)
But where I’m going with this is, okay, say they trade those assets. Now you gotta negotiate this contract and you gotta pay this guy 30 million a year or whatever, or he ain’t coming. I’m like, I’m not doing that. I’m just not, I’m not going down that road. And I was like, okay. And I was told the reason that he put out that Cleveland was not high on his list is because he.
got the real vibe early on, didn’t want to pay me $30 million. So that was part of it. there’s a lot of conflicting rumors on all this. I’m just saying from my point of view, did that trade. Would you have made that trade?
David Campbell (41:13.838)
no. No.
Terry (41:16.232)
Because remember, you gotta pay him now.
David Campbell (41:19.17)
Yeah, I think the Browns are really good at identifying receivers early and getting them before their market value skyrockets. It doesn’t seem like this is, this fits that to me. They’re giving up a lot and it’s just, it’s a lot like, they might like some of the guys they have.
Terry (41:28.957)
Yeah.
Terry (41:35.454)
And I don’t see Mari Cooper just being a one and done. mean, he’s on his last year of his contract, but he could play two more years. mean, I think he’s 30.
David Campbell (41:44.804)
there’s no doubt about it. I mean, look at the stats he put up last year, playing with four or five different quarterbacks.
Terry (41:47.216)
Yeah, yeah, he is. Although he’ll never say it, but you know who he loved was Joe Flacco. Remember you called him a confidence elevator and he had all those different lines for Joe. That was his guy, because they sort of are the same type, know, precision.
approach to football. I’m not saying that Dachon doesn’t study, but Dachon is very creative. Those guys would be symphony where the things are scripted out. Dachon is jazz. You have sort of underlying theme, but you can go on riff off of it. But really, you
Omari runs precise routes, Flacco was a timing passer. And they made beautiful music.
David Campbell (42:44.546)
They did. If it wasn’t jazz, what was it, Terry? It was something good.
Terry (42:46.982)
Yeah, yeah, I mean that was, that was Beethoven in cleats. That’s what it was. So we’ll see how the rest of this looks. Then I was told, and we saw that that, well, don’t look for any of our pre -snap motion. Don’t look for anything, you know? And they were right. They gave us nothing. They just lined up and played.
David Campbell (43:12.206)
could not be any more vanilla. So, so we’re talking about the Sean Terry. This got me thinking a little bit. Dan Orlovsky of ESPN. He he’s kind of ESPN’s new quarterback analyst. He ranked the top 10 quarterbacks in the NFL in seven areas. All right. And these were the seven areas, arm strength, ball placement, mechanics, decision -making, pocket presence, rushing ability, and second reaction. And second reaction is like if the first
Terry (43:14.098)
Yeah.
Terry (43:22.75)
Hmm?
David Campbell (43:42.222)
Reid isn’t there, are you able to make a play, you know, scrambling off platform as they call it or whatever. So Deshaun Watson didn’t rank in the top 10 in any of his seven areas, which I thought was interesting. I thought he might sneak into the bottom of at least one of them, but it got me thinking like of those seven areas, arm strength, ball placement, mechanics, decision -making, pocket presence, rushing ability, and second reaction. So you and I have already striked rushing ability from the mix. Like we don’t care.
if the Sean ever runs over the line of scrimmage this whole season. So we’ll make it six, but which of those areas do you think the Sean Watson needs to really excel at this season if the Browns are going to win big? the arm strength is there, is it decision -making? Is it pocket presence, ball placement? Like what do you want to see from him?
Terry (44:12.593)
No!
Terry (44:20.357)
jeez.
Terry (44:29.086)
I guess ball play might be another way of saying accuracy. That would be it. I wanted to see something approaching the Deshaun Watson who at the time he was traded to Cleveland was completing 66 % of his passes. It was the highest completion percentage in NFL history of any quarterback who had thrown at least 1500 passes.
David Campbell (44:33.25)
Mm -hmm.
Terry (44:58.238)
And they weren’t just short passes. But this guy, you know, he struggles to get above 60%. So I don’t know. That would be the one because if you’re not accurate, you’re, you know, you got problems. In fact, that was one of the things I was talking to Larry Karras, the football division three guru from Mount Union in that. And he said that he just will not.
David Campbell (45:09.646)
That’s a good one.
Terry (45:28.488)
play a quarterback that he didn’t trust the accuracy. He said, I want, he would, you have to have a certain amount of, of, arm strength, even at division three high level to do that. But he said, if I’m just cause a guy could heave it down the field, he goes, it doesn’t do anything for me. And he compared it to, you know, a pitcher with bad control. so I’m looking at Watson stats now and the last couple of years.
I mean, his completion percentage, you know, 58 .2 and 61%. I mean, that’s just, it just doesn’t make it. mean, for his last year in Houston, when he played on that bad team and he led the league in yards passing, he completed 70 % of his passes and he threw 33 touchdowns. He had only seven interceptions. You know, you look at this now.
Granted it’s only 12 games, but he’s got 14. I’m not gonna dwell on these numbers. They’re not very good but the point being the accuracy or ball play something be the one and and Probably some of it has to do David. What do you think with pocket presence and some of those things,
David Campbell (46:32.344)
Yeah.
David Campbell (46:38.926)
That’s a good one.
David Campbell (46:46.274)
Yeah, it’s all part of the one I was going to single out. I like your ball play. You made a good argument for that one, but the decision making one is the one I want to see. And it’s not just, I going to throw to this guy or that guy, but like when to throw, when to not run, like when to get out of bounds, when to throw the ball away, when to not take a sack, like when to check down, right? Like those are the things that, and he hasn’t had as many reps as he should have had over, because of the injuries these last couple of years.
Terry (46:52.338)
Yeah.
Terry (47:00.519)
Yeah.
Terry (47:08.093)
Mm -hmm.
Terry (47:14.386)
Yes.
David Campbell (47:15.93)
I want to see the decision making. want to see him making the right reads and seeing if he’s getting the ball where it needs to go and throwing it away and living to fight another day when it’s not there because a lot of times we’ve seen him when things break down, he puts himself in danger and takes big hits. So I think he needs to decide to bail earlier sometimes and get rid of the ball or just throw it away or whatever. So those are good. That’s two good ones.
Terry (47:24.83)
Mm -hmm.
Terry (47:28.52)
Mm -hmm.
Terry (47:37.852)
Well, you know, the argument, the argument can be that accuracy comes from playing a lot and has been in and out. So we’ll see. Or is the accuracy suffering because he has some arm problems? I don’t know, but that that’ll be a big one. And I wish they played Winston more.
David, maybe I’m just being pessimistic or whatever. They’re going to need this guy to play some games and I want him ready.
David Campbell (48:14.07)
I’m going to be interested to see who gets how many snaps between him and Watson against the Vikings this weekend, the joint practices, because the game doesn’t matter. The game is just a reason for fans to show up in tailgate on Saturday.
Terry (48:18.642)
Mm -hmm.
Terry (48:23.9)
Yeah, yeah, basically you get what tyler huntley and dtr fight it out for number three
David Campbell (48:29.152)
Yeah, exactly. The real action this week is going to be in these joint practices with the Vikings where it’s going to be ones versus ones. And there’s not going to, they’re not going to be hitting the quarterbacks. We’ve talked about this, but the coaches love this because it’s like a real game, but the quarterbacks are not at risk because they can’t be hit. I’m yeah, let’s see how that I’m wondering how many snaps Winston will get this week. That’ll be something we should.
Terry (48:34.056)
Mm -hmm.
Terry (48:44.443)
Yeah.
Terry (48:50.526)
I mean I’m looking at Winston’s now. His completion percentage for his career is 61%. It’s not particularly good. In 21, this is actually kind of a period that the Browns are hanging on. In 21, he started the season and played seven games, then he ate blood on his knee. 14 touchdowns, three interceptions. Only completed 59 % of his passes though, but he made big plays.
That, you know, that was, with new Orleans. And then after that he came off knee surgery and then they brought in, think I’d put Derek Carr and some other things. I, I want to see this guy because I, I’m, know, it’s a league where 66 guys started a quarterback last year. And I think it was 67 the year before very few quarterbacks go the distance. in fact, now I, there’s a fish with the Browns that I know. And I said, you know, the, you’re getting into the stage where.
quarterbacks are almost like pitchers in baseball. You have Terry Francona line. When you think you have enough, go get one more. And I said, it seems like you guys did that. And he said, yeah, we’re, we’re wadding them up because it’s not a lack of confidence in Deshaun. It’s just reality.
David Campbell (50:07.754)
yeah, like I think I said this about a month ago, Terry, what happened last year with the Browns quarterback situation can never happen again. they, it, it, yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s not fun and it’s, it’s hard for the rest of the guys on the team.
Terry (50:13.838)
Yeah, you don’t want to be down the PJ Wilson Road and all that.
Terry (50:20.966)
And I think it was an eye -opener to them to see that the Watson, who was very durable in Houston, he had missed half of the season for a knee surgery and only one other game, and that game that he set out was a meaningless game at the end of the regular season. That is not the Watson that’s here.
David Campbell (50:45.642)
And that’s the Watson they’re looking for the last three years of this deal.
Terry (50:47.61)
Yeah, so that’s why you better have somebody else ready. And as I mentioned before about playing for now, you know, they may like some of their younger linemen, but they know they could put Nick Harris in the game right now. And it’s not an embarrassment on the line.
David Campbell (51:02.614)
Yep. All right. Well, Terry, this would not be a Terry’s talking podcast if we did not talk about kickers for a minute. So I wanted to read this email from listener, John Shelley. And John says, Hey, Terry, I’m a huge fan of the Terry’s talking podcast. And this is really a question that like you and David did discuss when you have a chance, I began thinking about the topic. Sorry. When I began thinking about the topic I’m interested in, the first question that came to my mind was this, am I the only person who is getting sick of having NFL games decided by kickers?
Terry (51:08.317)
Yes.
David Campbell (51:31.214)
It seems increasingly to be the case that NFL scoring largely consists of getting the ball to the opponent’s 40 yard line, trying a couple of running plays from there. And if that fails to gain a first down trotting out a kicker who can boom one through the uprights from 50 yards out. Factually, one thing seems to be clear. The distance which top kickers can boot the ball is dramatically longer than it used to be. And their accuracy has also increased greatly. In a way, the kickers have outgrown the game. Field goals, even long ones have become almost automatic.
I really have two questions, guess. Am I factually wrong? Are there in fact more field goals than there used to be? Are they longer and are kickers more accurate? And then number two, if I’m more or less accurate on the fact, should anyone care about the development except when the Browns are making the kick? I personally hate to see evenly matched games, game after game, it feels like to me, being decided by last second field goals. There may be, of course, opposing viewpoints.
I’d love to get the take of Mr. Campbell and Pluto on this matter of critical importance. for considering it. Love your show. And again, that’s from John Shelley. All right. I’m going to turn it over to the Dean of Kicking Analysis, Mr. Terry Pluto.
Terry (52:38.59)
The data shows that every year kicking is getting better. There were 11 kickers, including Dustin Hopkins, who made 92 % or more of their field goal attempts. Hopkins was 8 of 8 from 50 yards. Aubrey, kicker last name of Aubrey, he was 10 of 10 from 50 yards or more. The average kicker this past year connected on 86 % of his field goal attempts.
So that’s where it was. Phil Dawson for his career, think made 84%. So, and now he was getting in the high eighties towards the end of his career. But I remember talking to Phil and he said how it has just improved dramatically. The coaching, the preps, there’s all these kicking guru coaches out there to help. So I don’t know if total number of field goals have increased, but certainly accuracy. Now.
The other thing though David, what does analytics tell you about field goals?
David Campbell (53:42.988)
In terms of what?
Terry (53:44.818)
They don’t like it.
David Campbell (53:46.709)
yeah, the analytics people you mean. Yes, yes.
Terry (53:47.891)
Yeah.
So they say go for it. They give seven is better than three. Of course, my argument always is three is better than none, but seven points. they want, even though kickers are better than ever, you’re more likely to come away with three points. Let’s put it this way.
Terry (54:12.158)
As he said, I even a 50 -yard field goal is like no big deal to these guys.
David Campbell (54:18.326)
And so there’s the reasons for that, Terry are I’m trying to think of why. So they, they just have balls for kicking. They bring in the kicking ball, which kind of, if there’s something, some defect with the ball, if some lineman fell on it, like that’s taken out of the equation. There’s more games being played indoors than ever before. Right. Which removes the wind and the snow and everything, which is another element. And, and just the technological advances in the science of kicking is always evolving. Those are kind of the three things in my head.
Terry (54:25.629)
Yes.
Terry (54:31.772)
Yeah.
Terry (54:36.872)
Mm -hmm.
David Campbell (54:47.328)
Is there anything else you can think of why it’s better?
Terry (54:53.136)
I do believe, I mean, you think about kicking and this goes way back. I Lou Groza for part of his career was an offensive lineman and was kicking. Gary Collins was a wide receiver and he was a punter. And so you, they just kind of did it on the side. I mean, Don co*ckerough, punted and kicked. I mean, now the amazing.
David Campbell (55:10.766)
That’s a good point.
David Campbell (55:14.574)
And now you’ve got kids in grade school who are like, I’m going to be a kicker and they focus on kicking for 10 years. Yeah. Right.
Terry (55:18.49)
Exactly.
There, that’s a point exactly right. And the remarkable thing to me is how when teams have an injury, the kicker, they, don’t even have anybody on the roster. You know, some guys, a defensive back or whatever they get kicker punt. You know how they, they scramble for that. They don’t even do it because you’re correct. Even in the lower ranks, you have all these specialists. So I guess that’s part of it. and.
But football, there’s a strong current from the analytics department is don’t take the three, go for the seven.
David Campbell (56:03.04)
I do want, well, two things, Terry. I do wonder if they might narrow the goalposts at some point, which would, which would help things. And the game is always evolving. And I was talking to Scott Patsco, our night sports manager, and he’s like, you know what? I think I mentioned this to him he said, they should just get rid of kicking altogether. Just give them the ball, you know, go for it. And if you make it, you don’t make it. The other team gets the ball.
Terry (56:06.716)
You could do that.
Terry (56:22.456)
Scott Scott and I, Scott is a pure don’t punt, go for it all the time guy. He’s right out of that. Remember there’s that high school, I think in Alabama or somewhere the guy never punts and they win all these games and
David Campbell (56:28.205)
Yeah.
David Campbell (56:34.498)
Yeah. But you would miss kicking though, right? You think it should stay in, do you? Yeah, yeah.
Terry (56:39.228)
I like kicking. I don’t want all kicking, but I like kicking. And I mean, there is something to...
It’s a little like closing the game in baseball when you talk in the hub. Think of the, know of at least three games that Dustin Hopkins won with big kicks in the final, say 90 seconds or less. And that whole thing is on your shoulders. And it’s pretty cool. I mean, people hold their breath when they lined up to kick that thing. So.
David Campbell (57:11.854)
Talk about a Willenda, you bring in the Willendas to talk about kicking.
Terry (57:14.014)
Yeah, I mean, well, this is this would be the classic thing there where you line them up and even with people rushing, but it’s the second quarter and you kick in a 52 yarder. Fine. Fourth quarter score is 21 to 20. And there’s you’re at the 49 yard line and the wind is blowing and there’s 14 seconds left and you either make it or you don’t. And if you don’t
You’re the one that walks off and it’s on your shoulders. That three foot tight rope off the ground now feels like it’s 37 ‚000 feet in the air. It’s the same kick. People are not going to be rushing any differently. You hope the snapper now he’s got to snap it the same way, but, I don’t know. It’s fun to watch. don’t like nothing but field goals, but I think it’s a nice element. was glad they moved the extra point back.
David Campbell (57:51.128)
Try to
David Campbell (58:09.486)
Yeah, I think narrowing the goalpost might be a good move, but, and I want, yeah. Yeah. I want to mention Terry. I was down at the hall of fame game and I saw the first, usage of the new kickoff thing. And we were talking about this on our last podcast. It is I’m here’s my prediction. I think teams are just going to kick it in the end zone and let them look the opponent come out to the 30. I really do. There’s no, it’s not worth risking a big return, to kick it into the landing zone. I think they’re going to have to change it next year. Now that I’ve seen it in action.
Terry (58:11.88)
They could make it harder.
Terry (58:21.862)
Yes, and you are, that’s your department.
David Campbell (58:38.382)
I think they’re going to have to change it where if you kick the ball on the fly into the end zone, it comes out to the 35 or the 40 next year. But anyway, we’ll see. I could be wrong, but I just wanted to mention that.
Terry (58:46.622)
Cause I was always of the thing of back when they were bringing out to the 25, I would have told my kicker every time, just kick it through the, as far as you can, kick it into Lake Erie, let them have the ball at the 25. And I remember talking to an NFL exec, goes, well, analytics shows that, you know, it was a four yard difference. They would do 21 and 25 and over the course of whatever. yeah, analytics didn’t take into account that
you kick off and then your guy commits a personal file. know, doesn’t, that kind of things that happen. Just give it, you know, kick it in the end zone. Everybody lines up at the 25. If your defense is any good at all, you should be able to keep them off the scoreboard going 75 yards all the time.
David Campbell (59:32.686)
Yeah, we might see that. think teams are going to just start out kicking it in. I could be wrong, but I just thought I’d throw that out. So all right, Terry, I wanted to move over to LeBron. 39 years old, just won his third Olympic gold medal. Should have a fourth, but that’s a story for another day that we can tell. But this guy, how is he doing this, Terry? And you want to put some context into like what you’re seeing and
Terry (59:41.585)
Okay.
Terry (59:49.543)
Yeah.
David Campbell (01:00:00.566)
somebody at that age doing what he’s named the MVP of the whole Olympic basketball by FIBA. What did you think?
Terry (01:00:09.598)
Well, it’s just a, first of all, he really wanted to play in this and win this. And, you know, as one of his old lines, it’s a cliche, know, father time is undefeated. I remember him saying that when he came to Cleveland way back in, in 14 and he’s feeling that. And he knows, especially with Olympics, there’s not going to be another one. I think he liked being the star of the stars. mean, the remarkable thing he’s on the floor with, I think three other MVPs.
and he ends up still being the MVP of the Olympics at the age of 39. The guy has been a four -time finals MVP, a four -time regular season MVP. He has won four titles with three different teams. One of the most remarkable stretches were the four consecutive final appearances with Miami, followed by four consecutive ones with Cleveland, eight in a row.
Then he also had taken a really mediocre Cleveland team to the finals in 07 and in 20 won a deal, a title with the Lakers and now is an Olympic gold medal.
At one point he’s covering the joker at center in that game, I think against Serbia. He’s playing point guard. no stats against French 14 points, 10 to 66 rebounds, controlling the tempo of the game. It’s just pretty, pretty amazing. And you know, I think back to first talk to him like when he was 14 or where he was right after his freshman year. And I went down to Keith Dan brought.
called me, was coaching at St. V at the time. And he was telling me how LeBron went to the five -star basketball camp, which was a big deal back then. And they started having a play against kids his age. And by the end of it, he’s playing against pros. And he said, you really need to look at this guy. He said, I knew he’d be a division one player. Now he’s forget it. He’s going straight to the pros. And I don’t know what we’ve got here other than it’s, you’re not going to see it again.
Terry (01:02:22.75)
So I watched them, they were kind of scrimmaging, just pick up game. And then I talked to him afterwards and he’s just a kid, David. He was like 14. He’s eating Skittles, sitting in the bleachers talking to me a little bit about, yeah, it was great. I was on the plane and you know, we had fun and all. It was just a kid. And then to watch him mature into how he, over the years, the media and everything else. Sure. He’s made some missteps with some things he said periodically in that. But when you look at the big picture of
what he’s accomplished on the field, or excuse me, on the court and off. It’s amazing. It’s simply amazing. And nobody has ever played anywhere close to his level at his age. Yes, Kareem was playing in his late thirties, but he, yeah, he was a center, but he certainly was not the center of his team anymore where LeBron is still, he is the hub and the wheel runs off of him, whether it’s with the Lakers or whatever.
The Olympic thing was another example of that. mean, Steve Kerr raved about a chance to coach him and to see what it was like because he certainly coached against them for straight years.
David Campbell (01:03:35.914)
And for those keeping score at home, Terry LeBron has three gold medals and Michael Jordan has two. and LeBron was asked after, after, asked after the game, if he might be back and he says, nah, I can’t see myself playing, but I also didn’t see myself playing in Paris. you never know. guess.
Terry (01:03:52.19)
Yep. And he lives in LA. So you just kind of show up and at least scrimmage with the guys four years from now. So I just wanted to just add that because of the, the longevity at high excellence. Sometime I remember Carl Malone played a long time. Kareem played a long time. They weren’t very good at the end. They just weren’t. This guy still is probably among the top 10 NBA players at least.
David Campbell (01:03:59.832)
Yep.
David Campbell (01:04:20.888)
Yeah, and would say so. if you, and just the way he brings whoever he’s playing with there, they get better because he’s out there. He adapts his game to what his team needs. He always has done that. And that’s the thing I think that makes him different than all these other greats that he’s compared to.
Terry (01:04:28.466)
Mm -hmm.
Terry (01:04:38.11)
Keith Danbar always thought that if LeBron were to model himself after anybody, Magic Johnson would have been at the triple double and that he enjoyed playing that role probably the most. But at times he was on teams where he really had to score 30 points a game or whatever it took. So I was happy for LeBron to see him do that and it’s harder to win gold medals. Now those teams from around the world are better, as you see.
David Campbell (01:05:06.488)
Ugh.
Terry (01:05:07.782)
Look at all the NBA players from around the world.
David Campbell (01:05:10.594)
Yeah. I mean, that South Sudan team’s got former NBA guys on it and gave the U S a run. yeah, it’s, it’s only going to get tougher. So it’s, it’s not a foregone conclusion. Like it used to be back in the sixties or whatever. So, all right, Terry, we are going to move into the final port part of the podcast here. We’ve got some good follow ball stories. This is our continuing thing. We still got a few of these to get through. We’re a little backed up on emails from being off.
Terry (01:05:13.309)
Yeah.
David Campbell (01:05:36.568)
But this one comes from long time listener, Doug Meredith from Akron. And Doug says, Hey, Terry, not a foul ball story, but the story of one that got away in the early 1980s. My dad took me and my friend, Tim, do a game at Cleveland stadium. Burt Blylevin was pitching that night. So we went down to watch him warm up before the game. There was a crowd of kids watching all of us wearing mitts. When Burt was done warming up, he looked right at Tim and said, here you go. Burt threw the ball, but it bounced off Tim’s glove and another kid got it.
Terry (01:06:04.786)
Ha ha!
David Campbell (01:06:05.846)
Years later, after Britt was inducted into the Hall of Fame, I saw Tim and I said, you could have had a ball tossed by a Hall of Famer. It’s not surprising. It was probably a curve ball and Britt Blyle had one of the best curve balls. probably just was too much curve on it.
Terry (01:06:12.254)
Mmm.
Terry (01:06:15.666)
Yeah, kind of bad. Well, if you ever want to launch with Bird -Blylevin, which I did once way back when I covered them when he’s on the team, he ordered liver.
David Campbell (01:06:22.433)
No kidding.
Yeah.
Really?
Terry (01:06:29.308)
Really liver. He was one of the early health food guys. know the the protein with you know little fat that kind of stuff. So there you go. Have some liver have a have a have a liver not liver worse just a hunk of liver. Yeah.
David Campbell (01:06:34.793)
classic.
David Campbell (01:06:42.861)
Alright.
David Campbell (01:06:47.95)
With the onions in the whole bit probably. Yeah. All right. This last one is from John McClelland from Phoenix. John is originally from Medina and he says, have a foul ball story to share, but first here’s the sports phrase that drives me crazy. I love Tom Hamilton and he’s one of the best ever, but I can’t stand when he refers to a pitcher not giving up, not giving a dangerous hit or anything to hit as an unintentional intentional walk. It’s either intentional or it’s not what it should be called as an unofficial intentional walk.
Terry (01:07:15.514)
Okay. All right. And then what Earl Weaver wouldn’t be a podcast without an Earl Weaver thing is you never tell a pitcher to pitch around the guy. He said either have, and he used a term, say the courage to go out there and tell him to pitch to the guy or tell him to walk the guy. Cause he would say one of the things as he would say, you tell these Rockheads and he would say that, now don’t quote me on that.
David Campbell (01:07:17.157)
All right, we’ll give you that point.
David Campbell (01:07:38.451)
David Campbell (01:07:45.557)
I’m
Terry (01:07:45.682)
Don’t throw a strike. What do you think the Rockhead does? Right down the middle.
David Campbell (01:07:51.116)
Yeah, don’t think about the pink elephant in the room, right? It’s one of those deals.
Terry (01:07:53.22)
Yeah, but his point was this, you’re the manager, it’s on you. You want to walk the guy, walk the guy. Because Earl was a big believer, like if a guy was just beating them up in a series of, he just walked them. I’m tired. He always said, let somebody else beat me.
David Campbell (01:08:11.0)
Yep. so there were no unintentional, intentional walks for Earl Weaver. Everyone was intentional.
Terry (01:08:14.283)
No, no, was yeah, and if a guy did it he just that means he wasn’t he was told to throw strikes. He just didn’t do it
David Campbell (01:08:21.421)
Alright, well here’s the rest of John’s email. He does have a foul ball story. He says, now that I’ve got that off my chest, here’s my story. I was sitting in the upper deck at the old stadium for a game against the Red Sox in 1993. After searching baseball reference, I found the exact date. June 8th, 1993. Jose Mesa was still a mediocre starter at this point, pitching to Carlos Quintana. I was keeping score and had my score card resting against my chest.
The foul pop went over my head, bounced off the back railing of my section and softly dropped into the pocket created by the scorecard as if someone had just placed it there. The next spring I made the pilgrimage to Winter Haven with the ball and I had it signed by Bob Feller, Charlie Manuel and Herb Score. I still have the ball but most of the signatures have faded. Love the show, keep up the great work. And again, that’s John McClelland in Phoenix originally from Medina.
Terry (01:09:03.184)
Wow.
Terry (01:09:09.246)
I mean, think about that, because, you know, I mean, Charlie, Charlie manual, when he went to Philly was a terrific manager. And of course, know, Herb, Herb and yeah, one of the greatest sitting coaches ever. And then, and then of course, Herb is the, could have been story because I didn’t see him, but people that did saw whether you want to talk about whatever great left -hander you want from.
David Campbell (01:09:15.874)
Definitely. And one of the great hitting mines of all time. Yeah.
Terry (01:09:35.806)
Steve Carlton or Sandy Koufax or pick one now. That was where Herb was on his way to becoming before he had the eye injury. And then when he came back, he blew his elbow out. And that was before they had Tommy John surgery. So he kept pitching with it and just wasn’t the same.
David Campbell (01:09:54.188)
All right, I think that’s gonna do it for us, Terry. Anything else you wanna mention real quick? We covered your library appearance. Anything else going on? All right, me neither. Thanks for listening everybody. We will catch you next week. Don’t forget to check out Terry’s newsletter. Go to cleveland .com slash Pluto. Click on the blue bar at the top. We’ll have a lot to talk about next week and we will see you then on Terry’s Talking.
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